DePaul Librarian
Michelle McCoy
Interviews
Anthony Rayson

Narrator: Anthony Rayson (AR)

Interviewer: \Michelle McCoy (MM)

Place: Anthony Rayson’s home ine distribution center in Monce., I1.

Date: Saturday. October 11, 2008

Project: Anthony Rayson Zine Collection

Contents: CD #1: 54 min.; CD 2. 1:00:51

Transcription Dates: Saturday. October 11, 2008 - Wednesday

Octaber 22, 2008

Key Sections CDA1:

Personal background [0:00]
Underground press in his youth [ 14:47]

First zine [19:20]

“People’s Polar Express™ [35:07]

Noel Ignatiey [41:45]

RURAL and STAND (Pevtone Airport opposition) [43:00]

Begins ARC Zine Distro [50:04]
re-eLECT LELAND H. RAYSON

9th
DISTRICT

AWARDS, ITATIONS,
ACTIVITIES, WINNR

STATE |}
REPRESENTATIVE

ENDORSEMENTS o1
RECOMMENDATIONS

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OK. ' here with Aoy Rasson wha has his 7ine disrbation,called ABC Zine
Diso. i October 1. 008 s we are a i home n Monce. 1. Welcome At
Thank sou, Monee, Monee. [Reference o o song i

Thank sou for agreeing o mect with me fods. And we want o start ot tlkin about
Sour background. Are sou oignalyfm i area?

Somewhat. | res upin Tnley Park which i sburh s twens miles ncth nd
Tt it west o ber, 15 ...yah...'m romthe south suburt.  lved i Haselerest e
about tireen ycar ad then tht's aher subarhshosttenty s srightnorth of
here

Okay. And what s sy your i encoumter with il o sl s groing up:
Oh e, don' koo i el remember i, bt | come from a poltcal famil. My
father[Leland Rassom] was erypolical He wasa stae epresentative or el sear
from 6577 When | s kid | wa  page down in Springfekd alse. And exen hore
thethe an for saious things. e ran forcongress n 1958 and hasicall e had he
clection solen. 1t was he st tme i histry Harvey xer oted Republican. A, <. sl

rowing up we had all kinds of things going on. My dad had mectings il the time in he.

howse. e ook us 10 ll Kinds of demonsirations and rallis and political cvents and he

had us working on thines. uh. campaigns. We'd he inhis politcal parsdes. We'd be.

tamping hags for just sou knews. with all his plitical messages. doing all this kind

il ever since we were
Nice

Mayhe me especially.

V' svass tag aong and ' g 1o his offce and han oot with i
and all i T Ay mom was poftclls active s el h.n o tht v, more
more anvand he communiy. su know. involcd i the scheol. She was o the schot
hoard, She was  art of Women for Peace during the Vienam era. And <0 we had

constant. sou know. politcs going on. We had huge hookeases all ver the hose, W
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i i i i . e of e iblings s 1 ight o he il
e’ s o v ad thce eind . [Lavgh.| S constant thingsgorng on ll
he . As | s coming p. | et o Bighschos from “67- 71, whih s pehps he
st tmuluios o ofthese as iy year 032 he et S hot s wid
xpericnce. A Baving my ol brothes, and sisier, bt ot o m broer e
{computer cable momcntaily iscngayes... of oune that ' happen that way. And |

i an uncle who was a political, who is & socilist, my daus brother. And, um, other

cousin that were political. A ot of peuple that we met, you kinow, and got 1o kaovs

]

S this was very much a big inlucnce oa...

on,

iely.

you direcion. Do you remember any when y0u did come of age what groups or
actions and musements you were inolved wils?

Veah, Uh, acually the st thing | id that was son of politcal was when | was &
treshman i high scbool. | amcd up with this girl that was going out with my brotber
and e devided that i was stupid that women, gils. b 10 wear skirts and decsses i the
winker. 15 50 cold. s stupid. They should b able 10 wear panis just ke guys.
[aughs |

Waughs |

We went o campaiga 10 being up this ssue tha it's rdiculous thatgirs shoukd have 10

war shins and irveze theie lega when i

o0 know,five bekow 2o, you Know, That s
ke the it i | remember tht | prsonaly ot ol i, bt s hrough igh
school | really ot involved i ani-war orarizing. | belped organi ellow stdnts 10
it clas and g oweiawn o big rllies . uh. 1 a0 ot 10 work withoher stderis
o other high sl i the ara. There s his e oy, ot his e, buthe was
i group called YATH which, it was s Marsis roup.  youah goup tht s o
Voung Amerians fo Truh. And uh, you know, ar's o agains war and s

Okay
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¢ And

0. we used 10 meet at his house with three ar four difTerent high school with kids to
Plot our suburhan anti-war strategy and then. you know. 3 ot of imes we'd go o the
huge demos downtown. They had demos downtown--there'd be a hundred thousand
people at these demos. <
is downtown Chicago?

‘Yeah. And. you know. it would b real active. Al the groups were oul ther. The
‘Communists. the YA, the Socialst Allance, the Panthers would be hawking their paper.
b various. uh. all inds of groups. It seemed like everyone had publicaions they were
hawking and I'd slways grab whatever | could find and | would always try 0 go o the
6 Wit the bullhom and grab the bullhorn off them and get me it say in...
ILaughs |

because they would never allow a e kid that no one knew o acually address a all
3ou know. They alvways had their own speakers and exery thing. But yah, we were very

it it [pause] Another thing that happcned. . and plus we were all o

i whote, .
lack iteraton svgel, rally. Thar's what it volved . Started ot my dod was lso
o he fecdom ighters. e go down

Oh.nokidding

Yeah.He wasaawyer. He woud go down and help il poplecut.1e°d come hock o
and fdrsse nd he sid have 0 . he'd have me in i sch,hiden i his sk
and hed go bl guys ot of il and ol his sl He'd go down there and then stegive
ith the ome of thesepeople and we'd o o ke Milwake 1o march with Father
ames| Gropgi and Dick Gregory. They had a bigamidiscrimintion roup [NAACP
Vouh Council]up there [1967], 1t was prty itense, We'd o up there and march down
the sret. Thenigh efore we went thee fsedom house was humed down, ou ko, |

remember the chant we had. “Police did t. Burmed down the freedom house. Police did.

Bumed down the frecdom house™ [Laugh | Then, there'd be all these like Navis. right

‘wing racist people in this white neighborhood screaming and throwing insectives and
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epithets at us and the police were basically on their side. you know. I was a hostile
environment, Then. we'd end up in the bascment o the charch and they'd have a dianer
and then Father Groppi would alk and Dick Gregory would inevitably be on some kind
of fast. ke “well, 'm on duy thiny-seven ofthis fasC”. [Laughs |1 was real inense.
They wouldgive s tahirs. I realy impresses you. you know, s 4 young chikl 0 go
hrough somethiny Tike that 1 really stichs with you. Then | go back 10 class and Tinley
Park was ike un old German 1own with lite ticky-tacky houses, these il small-
minded people. these raist whit people. There was o black Kids in the igh school
back then. They were acis, they were homuphobic, hey were sexist. The whole
atmosphere was ignorant and the teachers were fight there with them. | remember in
cighth grade | did a. this was rght afer the Father Groppi march, or maybe it was [sic]
e also went 10 sic] when Dr. King was in fown, we went fo Chicago when, you know,
e was atached and asssultd and everyhing. 1 was masty. 1 was. . And [ remember
going over (0 where the Nais were and geting one of the [sic] they had comic book. It
was called “White Man”. 1t was like a Superman comic book. but the hero was Whitc
Man snd b was going after some black, disgustingly depicted, you know. arch-criminal.
And they were just distributing tha on the sieets?

Veah. So we ook o of those home. They gave one fo us because we were white. It was

unbelievable. | remember my English eacher in eighth grade. She was a fiend of my
mom's. atually. They were inthe same bridge club. She was also the French teacher.
Anyway, her assignment was 1o write n essay about a famous person. This s cighth
‘rade and thit’s 1966, | guess. So. | wrote sbout Marin Luther King because that was
what we just, you kaow. uh..
Very relesant,

Aehat’s on my mind. She gave me an “F. | Nlunked. She said Munin Luther King is o

communis,{Lsughs].

No hidding.
AR: Thatwasi.
=

MM: Do you till have that paper?

ARG No. 1idn' save o of those popes. .. semod ke thet happend 1 e o of
times. Stupid slT ke that. ' realy tumed e off o formalcducstion o o the
teasons The tcachers were st s ignorant. st a gnorant s the students. That was
R You wouldsee teachers bt i, thro thm (o thetp o he st n s o
he way dow o the oo becaue they N ke bos of o Mins i thei hand o
Some incane hing. And then we'd e tis ey o b punished bt pomted o principel.
Ty paddi sic] heyd est us o, pal .

MM This i publc schot?

AR: b tis was grade schol, h - i grade. ou know. They'd ke s do idiculous
things. 1 remernbe om ime. | wasbresking up a ight betwcen thes two s and he

teacher blamed me for it al. With a spoon, | had fo clean up the ice and snow offthe

sidewlk in frontofal these b ids. 1 was s retaded.you know. Laughs | And
ha's how they were. And hat's ho it was. Ty did’t el each us anibing.
Standard s Theyjost sl more | woud jutapose sgsinst the st  was inding ot
on the strets downiown with sl tesepeople akingagaintthe war. Thes had ke
Caesar Chaser come o fown and he'd k. And my brothr was fn the YSA. the Young

Socialist Alliance which is par of the SWP which a worker's party. a Troskyist grup.

14 g0 10 some of his mectings and we'd fsten 0 <ome of the speakers | was more

imiresedin he more milian s, the SIS and the Pathers. S 1 ot ofgot 0 ko
hem btierand hung ut ith them more evcn though | s ke ifcen | meta couple
of Panthers and | was on my way o et with, h with. Fred flampion. bt he was
murdered insicad. 1 was  shocking even. ' good fends o with his son. Fred
Hampton .

MM: Okay? s hefocal?

AR: Wl he's from Chicago. He does alot of work. He's hased kind of out of San Francisce
bt s e a ot in Chicagss You know, when like some kid gets shot dead by the cops.

and e s marching with people o the police station, e was working closely with

Aaron Patterson, th one who was taken offof death row for a double marder he didn't
omumitafer seventecn years in soliary, Those two were like bt rcnds and partrs.
3ot know. and then they sortof framed Auron Patrson back int prison for hity more
sears. They'd [Hampion and Pattcrson] bare in on a mecting with Mayor Daley and Dan
Devine and cal them out for being them being the ones with ll the guns. Laughs.|
Where'sthe safety of our ncighborhoods? Here's these kid being shot b the cops.
‘What's happening 0 these cops? Nothing, You know. So. then um, so then, you kaow, |

s just eaming, reully. And another two close friends of 4

. uh. they were living in
Dekalb and one was u student and | don't know what the other was doing. but they ran
this grotio. this lterary groto. you know bookstore with [sc] they had pornographs. they
had undenground stul they had al the underground magazines and newspapers. There.
s rea proliferation of that kind of tufl You know. al these wild comics and I'd see
il the underground papers from il th cites. They'd have everything there. And 1 used
10 just hang vutin the grouo hecause that’s where they worked and lived and worked. |
mean they dida’t live there, b they'd be there 3 ot s0 be there a ot nd Id be able 1o

ach up on al this underground stlfal the ime. you know. | hud real ice access o

i
MM Where s that shop hocated?
AR liwe in Dekalb.

MM: Ot in Dekalb, Okay

AR Basically it was ke a porm shop with just ltcrature. magazines and bouks, but it b had

il the other underground ol . | guess they hd 1o make some money someho 1

Py for the underys

o st [Laghs |
MM [Lasghs ]

[14:47)
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Pt then I e uh. il oderjoumals, ke communist oumats. and 1 shvays be
ki o books and magesis o ol wherever | wed g, Like e )
oty s Che Guevara wa ild. mardere. uh. is diary o i Bofiviacampign
ot Walgron's o whtecr that Cbor's Rexal Drugs | guess it was i h
oy 1 s on the shel. 11 was publhed in Cuba, B, somehen i ended upoma i in
Walgreen'. sou know. Cobt's. | grabbed that. ' is rea daies. | remembe rying 10
Keeptrack f whathe was doing down there through the itleartcesinthe [Chicago]
Tribune hecause tey ol say. “welhee's  sinnih beteen Che Guevars'sband
a0 0 people wereKiled and e was” nd al tis tuff. You did't el know. Yo
‘et aways Kind of pulling for i snd you know. hen il he was captred.
‘wounded. and then mundere. They didt want hir o g o il Bt then s diay
came out and i was facinming hecause | readexie hooks b i

and. you know.
Castro and 1o Chi Minh and [General Vs Nguyén] Gidp and Lin Biso and Mao and
Stalin ven and I enin. Trotsky. cveryhods. you know. Mar. Bt vou really couldn’t find
anarchists” classics. it scemed. There was nothing there. you know. | think,

Whe do you think that is?

ihink & kot of the groups.the Marxistgroups were, well they were more organized.
more centralized. They usually had a location. They had like a book shop and 3 space.
And there had o have heen some fnding from oxerseas for them. through Russia or
hateser. There was a huge communist movement throughout the world and there was a

rong. uh. communiet parties and insurgencies allthroughout Central America. theo

Asin, Affca. you know. i partics in Furope. There was plenty of. you knew. moncy

around for them. bt there was neshing for the anarchi

The anarchists. they d st
shows up and figh the stret hatfes. xou knew. 1 aughs.] U, thes were . you know. <

‘atomized. There was no real big party. big alfance. Itis

il lke that today. realy. P,

there’s. ot more accessihle serioe anarchist analysis information ot there thanks 0

cufits like AK Press and some of the ihers.
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Wh

s AK Prss locuted? Jo
They e s of Oskland and Ldinburgh, Scotland.

Ok

ey have s huge...Have you scen thei catalog?

sk, Cliformia. Unn, | think many years ago | saw the catalog.

They have a it catalog. They have 10 o stull. All Kinds of st

D0 they o classic and modern, clasic wnd moser wriings?

Not s much mouern as | would ke, I's more ucademic analysis. o koo, Like they
have very fnle o trom modem day prisoners. | mean they have Mumia Abu-Jamal or
Leonard Pelier, but, they don't really deal with these modern y o e olutionarics like |
o, 30u know, There's no one else, very few.

Right

0.0 1 ke eying 10 alk therm [sic] because they hae  ine section und they have

sines but Uyt ik whit | would call them mainsirean underground zines. coughs |

hey are Kimdofslick. Thy aneKid o ke qssi-magacines and they don't sl |
[ T —
s there s charge for those?

Oh yeah s like

o bucks. Not much. They eharge for everything. They we s

proiiiable busincss. you know evea though it's run cooperatvely. Uh, | gota ke
something in an AK Pross. Some people did a book that | dd a chapter in that | can show

Sou. o't know if you have seen it

[1930]

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Oh. Very ice. | would ke tosceth. We'l et that ook information fom you, U,
e, sbolutly. So. when did you cncounte the kind o incs tht o o ow?

Well, no il ke the mid 90,1 my own ine My st ine | i came ot n T4,
was calld "People’s Plar Expres”. 1 was ik srcam of comscionstes exan sazs

13w ik over one hundred pages typed writin and fike single-spaced, you kaow. It
covered all kinds of. (sc] it was a will al over the place thing. 1 had a few contributions
From other people. sou know. artwork or poems. this and that, Rut mostly it was sic] I
Just come of itchhiking around the country for a couple of years afer dropping out of
college. Id go to demos and Id g0 to collectives and hippie communes and live ot on
cow pastures and bams and on sidewalks, Whereser. you know. Basements, We had a fot
of confrontations with the police and other peaple. Guns in our face every time you fum
around and crazy people driving. A lot of insane adventures. Well for a while there |
moved. 1 came hack for a while and | pot  hold of 8 van and ended up driving hack. |
was living outin Reno and Sparks. Nevada, And uh. | was working there for s whike and
then I got arrsted s couple oftimes. that dide't help and uh. but.ycah, me and these e

ey and we were just itchhiking all over

e place andjut scing wht tis counin s
shoutfrom the andemesth. o know. 1

MM: Whatyeor were was that?

AR This was ke the spring of 72 o the sprng o 74

A Ok

AR [Coughs.| | came hack in o Tinley in'4 and started pecking away at the typewiter like o

maniac. [Laughal.

Get it all out while it i rosh in the mind.

AR:. Then I went to m. dad's law office and sort o hogarted his copy machine. Made s bunch

and started giving it to my fiends.

AM: Okay

AR: And I figure. ckay. this will help and | can star geting organized. I'm going to do.

something aheut this garbage. you know. And here. this whole thing with Nixon wa<

eing dow with Watergate. It scemed ike a real furning point i history. you know. the
Presidentis being kicked . But realy it was ke the halloon. the ir coming autof he
halloan hecause alse right around that time. they finally decided. well they had signcd he.

Paris Peace Talk

the end of carl *71 aflr the horrble Christmas hornbing that
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mundered ens

thousands of pevple. It was like this crescendo of iolence wnd they
e still helping the Soviet peopl munder people unil the VictCong ook urer i *75
Hat, 74 they had signed the agreement and they were withdrawing all of these roops and
s they siopped. uh. the dratt. And tht ike otaly blew up al hese people that were
] heir biy concer was being drafed. That was a huge concern since you could get
il or maimed o ioreed 0 Ll other pevple. You couldbe ruined for e, A lot of
Poph whe they were subjecied 0 that had 1o ke & certin eeision of what 1 o, you
Ko So that ey 10 e, was the ngine that enerated the radicalization of t less,
soncalled white peopl, white males, anyway . | mean, women had thei own legitimate
strugele. blacks. every one cls. but males, espocially middle class males that were going
105010 college and ey 10 tind a ke white-skinned privilged niche and accomimdsic
themsclyes 0 the system somehow. They couldn’s really do that with the dalt i theie
face because even colloge Rids wers forced 1 go. for a while. | remember | had 3
b, o, )2

Oh. 80 Kidding.

1 wasthe st year they actually had dra nusmbers. Luckily my umber was 150 and the
st ycar they oaly went up 10 120. 1 dida’t have 1 worry sbout i, | Kind of worried about
it but | remember my brother who was going ( Madison, they bud u big pool and
everyone would throw i ten bucks of sonicthing and they woukd give it 1 whoe et had
e lowestnumber. 1t was all 30 andom. 1 was based o your birthday

They'd give you money for.

They’d give ic] like this one kid was three, 0 they Knew he was doomed, you know:
Okay

0 they gave him all the money.

For...Why did hey give him money?

Well, bocase he was going 10 be draed,

ok,
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an

Tle"suh. you knonw b
Money 1o just have fun hefore he goes or maney

‘eah. basically. Or to go to Canad or whatever.

1020 someplace cle. .

So. there’s ot o people who eigned homosexuslity o drug addiction or craziness or
Whatever it was (0 1y and gt out of i o physicalimpairment. You would s fo get
Peschitrists. doctor or whoever o you would actually go and do something that sou
ould get arested or. like "Look. I'm a felom. You can't drat me. hecause amsihing.
‘even hecoming o heroin addict. Some people actually did it “T'm a heroin addict. You
can’tdraft me. sou know. ™ Bt the problem i then you're a hroin addict [Laughe).

[Loughs | Right.

ey it o gt ot of ha
Right

Bt know people who did that. And . it wasscary. And then e kidsfom the
neighhorbod come back.otally
even come hack. 1 emember our neighbor lady come runnin over ur sad rying her

rent people, shatered from their experience. Or not

‘eves out because his oher boy was killed over there, this other neighbor of ours. That
really stared bringing it home. Then that saried happening i every single neighhorhow,
‘ou know and for this despicable bodbeth war that they were having. And they had it

onTV. eveny

. You'd e these G..s rinning with like a cordwood stack of hodies

et o them. It was grucsome. It was horrible. And if you had any sensitvi

‘coulda’t st thinking ahoutthat.then y0u o to class andthes ry o talk about sntas
and Columbus and you're hored out of yvur besin, 1 sit in class and writc Roman

mumerals. [Laughs.| The whole time I was in class and | would sec how

Tcoud et
- Or lse | would sncak 2 hook in hetween my texthook.

[Laughe | Okay
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O el | would constanily stae atthe chock and weite dowa the e, | would weie the.
e o the s 1o hundrad ditherent mes. | was 5o bored in shou the whotk tme |

s ther

And you Know the dministation was constantly rying o dampen our, ot uh,

. i o thrcaten us, “Well, €30 walk out o this schoul Bere s, you will

e b bl 10 come Buck.” 14 ke wlk ot o e monsistiv ot someing
gt sspeded wan many s o onsee. [Laghs | We uled o ofpranks,
00w sl e g o and cxplosion which ot f i was s of Viewu.
St woul! il poen si 1 i g and sl s you ko, wid and. /1]
g, And s ioor popl ey s o sy o . The ot et
ol g il Ay, e s o il i i hr s
0 e umout popl, o, which s ik ey il it sn it sbsance
wants o maximize their [sic] you know. Plus, there was the [sic] the baby boom was for
e, We utmmberd the s b e v though ey id ke s o s 0
Victnam. A ot ofthe plis appartus s upprcssion sppes was lo in Vit
o we sl B thern ofths bl We woukl, s Ko, sl i o
ouses and placs i he s, 08 o, We would Bl es hings g o
Sometimes we would e the cop come and i s, ush s o, ome ad beat s,
g o o Ther: s war i on. 3l w geint young el And
e o o problms it our s, Well, s by, v e il

bcause we were all 4 bunch of dope fiends and we were untisocial ad a bunch of

onghaiced, ant-authority. anti-war. They don’t kaow how, they didat know how 1o deal
with it And we dids’t ciher

Ki

1w s i open social wound,reaily. And 5o hen they tried  appesse s und they

stand u ol e,

el everyone would come 1o the coifee howse ripping on acid or
downers e druak on theie [si] you know. [Laughs |
[

AR: 1t didn'treally work. [Laughe ] 1 mean Tinley Park was especially had it scemed 1 me s
far as dope fendi

Tt was areal downer capital of the whole ares. You know. i was
sy, We had greasers. bikers, and all inds o, you know. basic hippics. and then the
socialites. It seemed like everyone by the time | was in [si] a seior in high school it

sccmed ke everyone was ondrugs by then. 1 was wid, [Laughs.| 1S

MM S0 60 you think thi ind of ifferenceherween th youth and sour pare enerstion
renls ki of sawned  ifleren tvpe f policim.  iffeent pe of undergrund tht
Te 1 ll these different aemucs s wriings thet s ave now?

AR: - WelL for me it did. A o of people. it didn't They sold outorthey ended up dead. Ao
of people hat ko ae ded alreads: A o of people diedall long he way 35

anyway or s fterte. lterary or interested in being fterary. They basically were fumed

O by school to the point where,

50 common ey, o, thet hey don't want 0 end.
they don't a1 300 know.“I'm ot going o ead amy hoks.” Oranything 1
Rascall. € 3o Know. <t our e st your fce Kind of thing. They didn'
resliz . tht they need 10 know s the ca v a hest hey can,(aughs) s ou knev

Fventhough. seah. you'se hecn mis-cducated in school. That doesn't mean o0 don't

ned education they didn’t scem t get. Plus.al the drugs dows fog s ur abilty o

‘understand and focs. You jus set into this reptitve sddictive patterns and sou just

scrounge your life away and you get a crapp. you know, wage slave job and you ry (0
et a family. And if that doesn't work. then you have sl these problems. It tears ycur ife

down. you know. And you don't have [sic] and once the drat ended.

whole fecling

that e were @ part of something sortof dissipoted. 1t sort of broke ine hese fte, s
k. the feminist movement. the biack power mavement,the Chicano movement.the
migrant workers. th fsic] allthese ather. uh.a these oher things, the gays. leshians.

ransgender people hecnuse hat was just starting. too. Especiall for a middle class,
s

A

K

supposlly white person, we Jidat ven understand our whiteness, ou kiow, or how we

in o we s o i, hat do e Row o, o o we ekt b et pevple
4 o K. ] ey et s ppresed s ey oy o b they ida' uodersad

o ey all i, You know, | ot the subrs. A It of e action actaly gocs
it iy, o i the s, And 0 e s | hd st wokingand siggling
o woring i oy, ot o 3 il and gt my e s b i b
ing, hd w owsuit. | won my Lo, | wom 5250 ol e sl sout s,

s o, Andthen, youknow, |yt job. | il ot sl job e e
it jobs v hd. You know, s gl 0 ke s ke with o pople

i e o b able 0 o st ving. i, Uying 0 54t g o <t

e, uyin 0. you knov, 0 v someting going. Theny0u v speding ke
and you have this und you have that. There's all this other swlf going on. You don't /‘
el e ime e, st ounct,You sther s o <ol g 0 10 frior
ol o what v, Your aingchs s ou e sy 4 cran bunch of
ST o' sl e ot o sl s o . . ho i s oo, s 1

o you live o how it does any real good for you 1’ ke 4 means t0 an end 10 get  job.
s notread

8. And then the i o your own, vy e pople delop that
10 igh schol, s he pevple | hung out with. | g utwith the o s and the
YT, 10 o it the smar i, you kv, that i e Bt ey were
siecady presty wel lagged no the sysem. This wasa' the way | wanted 0 0. 50,1
ould el o e telligence, bt | couda't e ot willingnes sl ot o his

whol:thing. 50 0n 1 college, and then have a regular bourgeoisie life. | just oulda’t do
that,

0. 30u huve this irst ine, the “People’s Polar Express. inthe 70's and you gave i to
Sour frends. When did it strt becoming more than thet?
Well, uh...
an:

AR

A

AR:

o
AR
M

AR

And where vour ideas expand from there?
Well. hasiclly it sent me inte a deep depression hecause it secmed to have o effect on

‘anyhods. Nohody pave a damn ahout nothing shout it They thought it was kind of

imteresting. They thought i was crary. s kind ofineesting. bt ~You're crazy.
Rayson, you ko s Kindof fumns. s k. ¢ didn" connect o them and s
couldn’tunderstand hy because it meant so much fo me. | Gide't hik it would mean
nothing 0 nsone else, ven my s fait. | mean, some people were supporise e

1 was doing it.you know. But eall. it didn’t amount ino nothin. [t was discomnected

from anythingraly and i ' e any s, s new, | et o el o
deprsson o  counle o ear. 1 6t e knew i oing o come ut o, s
Know. 1 s scar. And s when | sl did come out o . jus sort of made me v
intemalired. you know. because | just couldn' i) ried fo gt some peychologicl

support from ansone { could find and no one was willing or abe o give tha, cven my

sort of circle the wagons and do everything for mysel. by mysclf

Were you maried at tis time?
No. Lgot married uh.sctualy it was a double wedding: June 4. 1977, | was twens-twe.
My siser. [ was bom an her scventh birthday. she alo got married with... 1 was her

second marriage.

ou don't mean sour wife.

So. by fomily
No.

Vou mean other iblings and..

My brhers. My hrothers. mainly. My folks. My folks were supportive, the most of

anyone. a foks usually are. They il dide'

‘understand what I wos going throwgh and |
‘could't really relte 1o them. My uncle. he was shout the anly one tha even asked me
about t. And thar's when | final got aftle limmer of someone giving a damn and.

then you k. | was cort of clinging i thi it flickering cmher in my soul of wht 1
a1 and shat | wanted 0 be and how | wanted it 10 b, But | was being slapped

around 0 thuch and brutalizid that it was all | could o 1 just hunker dowe and prety

much avoid everybudy. So the | ot maried o this person who was ke e years my

ittt o  ighare riae. S i st bl i, bkl
{8 was . g | bt iy s v il st 1 .
A the e oo e e, Gt hd e ey, She ik 1§

0,000 dollars 0 we were able 16 put s down payment oo howse. That's When we sartcd

lini

i Hazelrest, We had a house. Aud then, when we divorced, | had 1 pay every
penny of that $0,000 back. Laughs | Plus | had 1 pay her $1.000 for the fucnituze which
st even worth that much. | had 10 pay her $1,000 [sic] $100.2 month for five years
and $30 dollars a month for twenty monihs forthe fumiturs. So e six years, | pud her
01T 30 the house ws min, you know. At lesst what equity there was in t. And then, |
it my riends move in and we had roommates a the house. Bu during the lte 70's and
the B0's, ' write these essays whe things would happen. These hormible events never
stop. 1t was the same as Vietnam. It never siopped. You yot Chile in *73, Mozambiue,
‘Angola. the horrible U.S. buichery in Colombia, £l Subvador, Nicarugua. All his stufl
never siopped happening. And, you know, the fis never stopped pouriay in from
ovemment igures and the B.S. you read i the papers. But | really had no aceess to
serious analysis. | id Bave a subscription o like Z Maguzine and the Progressive, 01
ot these like acadermic analyses of what's going on. And you know, it's horrible, the
U8, is causing all this uil, bl blah, bish, biah, blah. But | never... Ohay, yesh | can
e that and | understand tha, but how docs that ffeet me? How do | connest with
anything about it? What do | do sbout it? | can't walk isto the otfice of the Progressive or
Zamd 32y, “Hey. Iwok, you know. | want 0 stat wriing anices for you.” You gota go
Uhaough this acaudemic veting process, it scemms, e if you are a radical bedore you are
ke seriously by any body. And | thought that s rdiculous and you kaow, | didn't

et o any of it 'd rad it and think, “Yeah it really suchs ol ight ™ ' just g0 on with
4145

MM
AR:

M
AR:

my i, you know. 1 didn'treally have o, oo reason to believe that | couid have ans Kind

of impactat al. Tis was like a watershed

e, guess, where | finally decided t stop

interalizng everything and iy o e out how 1o g shout doing swhat 1 e s o
,a

Okay

his is what got me offthe dime. | read a infrview with Noel Ignatiex wha i the

illant. then Harvard professor who spearheaded the whole Race Traitor journal ad the

‘whole new understanding about wha white skin privilege i and all this stuff. And so he.

e hey ntrviwod him. He' rom Chicag. o, They nersewed him and ht e
s aing el it me. 1 sid. W here's  guy il elin the uckin rth.
Laughs ] ere’ oy who' inging .~ Now, e that his ca b done, his s |
it v, you Koo, houghtcryone was st s besimwashed i tis ot sy
hat they, coukd't bresk hrwgh ththarier here 3o el alk. el rally shout
‘whats going o now. s ke, without the "o ycah.bock i the 60 1. tis and

this.” 1 mean vou get s0 sick of hearing that, you know. Oh y

h. theyre going and

they"re slaughicring them. and they re training death squads and they're kil

el these
Penpleand o k. Veah. s horible, bt hres o one sanding up. They ot
reporting it nles thy got these embeded repotes. You don't s these cord sacke o
odie ke s 5. They do'tshow anyihing. Al-Jazce does, bt we can't gt
300 know. So b impreseed the ell ot of me and | e him e ight awan and <aid
el gt ofT om whatyou'r smyin. | agr it wht soure saing,and ah, et e
Ko shat 1 can do o do comething ahout . And 1 want o evder ke e copic of s
rormal. And he e me bk and he einicd ms et i he next jurnal.

Oh o

Ve, that was cool So what 1. for ale. and 1 forget s how 1 pgged i th e
nderground. b | found hout the hole ine thin, here s e he ok o

the Progrescive or something. you kaow. So | stared exery address. | would contact. A1

s ime s b just gradusted from Priric St 20

A Ok

K Aad Dwas the valedictorian there,

ML Oh really. Congratulations.

AR Ve, [Laughs | 1 used my specch 0 ell of the gorcrament and the almisistraion.
s Hiscinatiog, [Lavghs |

MM A the gradustion ceremony !

1430

AR Ve, yeab. It was Rind of inerestng. But | was o sartng 1o involv myselfin this
Whole anti-irport ight out he.

MM Okay. the Peotone

AK: Yeah. There was a group cald RURAL which...| [sic] we moved out here in 90 aad |

't Ko i about it whe | s mosed ut e, bt | 00n fusd out. The
500 allod RURAL sands o Residents Uit 1o Retin the Agrcatual L. S
ound ha goup and stred ing 9 mcting und s s thinking p things 0 do
and projects und writng iesesun i, and you know, esarching and edwating my e
o the whole thing which expanded in, bxause everything's elato. expanded ino
his hole... Every g u koo i ke that.[Laugh. Evything's messed up. |
ey sard i o hen | come xross this gt |, 0 know his gy who
s sl brnging it ad then . yu o, scpped up my riing, my crious s nd

sy and stk Bt | stll didn't Know what s zine was or how 1 do a zine or an hi

1 1 did able |

10 conncet whea | wiote into allthes things. | finally got a ke a cine.
back. 4 review ine. 3 Fuctsheet Five, or something, which reviews some thousands of
incs, | hought man, look at this, y0u kow. So 1d cice the oncs | want, then [ wite

0 them and the | this thing call an “cssayogeaphy’

was like a i but it would
st st all the xsays | wrote, which were sheets of paper. I'm sill on m; typewiter So |

ol s them my cssayography”and as them what they thisk about .y ou koo
AR:

AR

Some penple would come hack with. you know, some erifiques or suggestions. You bne

they'd sa. wel, why don' ou just make your own 7ne, Bt then 1 <arted geting
egularrine in digest i and comesponding with those edio s and writrs and
dexeloping a personal relationship withthe cnes that | et more ity with their
e, sou know. So thar's when | decided tosart my oo zin. Thar's when 1 tried
“Thought Bombs”. 2]
Abeut what ear was har?

That was like 96,

Ok

9. And thes were

Sothen I put those together and four ssues came out alla once.
still just typed up, single-spaced. & 172" by 117, At first  said. “Oh. | don't need
Eraphics.” I'sthe ideas that matter. So it was allthis dense text that.you know. i< not

exactly what a person is loob

forin  ip read and waning t have 10 pld though.
3o kno. B, it wasimensly provocatsel writen a sou can ll. And e peerle
ealy appvecsied tha, theimensit of the wriing. And then k.. ound shout v
k.1 decded that 1 was ke sl o an narehist, And then | staried

mecting...| went 10 this group... Wel, NoelIgnatiey helped start 3 group. an sholitionist

group.in the University of Chicago. So | went t0.a mecting that he spoke at and there
were al these cgghead Universit of Chicago students were in this group. e lectured us
‘and we talked and we went 0 this other professor who issls an cditor of that thing, is

ke Kingles Clarke. | gucss. And we went o i aartment and we st ke
And ared. hen there was. groun ofwitersa he colegewho wrote the shool parr,
S0 went 10 oneofthe meetngs. o know,the writesae rinstorming up theie st
dition and | conributd a thoughtshout wht, you know... and | gave the catoonis
some dessand | don't ks what ll . O of thegiks here fook e o Farakhan's
esturan. S0 we wend there. A o he 1l s askig... o her e an

anarchist and 1 aid where were the anarchists.[1aughe | He says g o the A-Zane. g tn

MM

W

A

AK:

A

he A-Zone. sy, “Oksy 22
Aod U in Chicago?

[

ot there amymore. Where dd it e o b

s 0 be at 2019 North Milwaukes Avenu:

O oksy wow, ok Right i the heart of what's Buckiown nos, ight?

o)

R

Yeah. S0 | went over there and | uh...they had some snarchiss there and they hud like o

e bokahop. n the buscrment they hud punk shows and they bad diferent groups that
would meet and al this stull $0 | said, "Ah. how cool, now | can collaborate with these:
ananchists.” And we can really stan doing stull you know. And | tried 10 do that and |

ungs all over the place aboutal st of things. And slso during,

et o gillion
s et was ke carty 98 by then.. ht was b yar because that’ bsicaly, when
oo 1 AND (Shot i AitortNightmas Down) g oy the sirpor.
Tt s Febrary. | staiedan ARA group which was Ani-Racst Action, Sosh
Chicago ARA. We b metings i Blae sland with s buncof kids rom ol e suburbs
Wl o various things with that. And | would o the publicons fo i, | went 0 teir
nional conereoces s ul tht st And | sl stared my s ten, e o ths
Sest. ALt sl South Chicago ARA-ABC Zine Distro because w1 ot e
idea for it was 1 went 1 an ARA conierencs in Coumbus, Ohio, and there e ARA
St o 0uh..oue group, St Chicago, Chicaga, Tooni, Columbus. Boion,
Houston,all ver I waslke e diffren groups. And it e ke all o them hd .
Ve ine, & il cowletter, you Kow wha they e o i hat s, how o i
e s, i adthat,adsome anlysi. Michic] otk who i el shrp oy, '
i some gond bk, okl gy, he's s from Chicoge,he's out o L A oo, e

funs LA PAR which i the

anchor of ARA. PAR is People Against Kaciss. e was

there and | ws alking with him. He docs a eal newspaper
AV Okay =

AR _and it comes on

ke. | dom'tknow i ' quarterly or what, But it serious anal ic
‘Whereas most of the other groups ae ty pical anarchists colectives, thes fold inand ot

They're unreliable. R, they had a ot of these publications and fike [ shway«

ince | was a Kid. 1°d go around and grah evers one’s suflto tuds it and 1 thouh 1

myself, you know. this would. it would be 3 good ides i all o these neswser

available from one source. And 1 aid. “Hes."...1 g0 to Minncapolis, and | <.

idea i all this <ol could b from ane s

That'sa good idea. but no one ever

wanted to o it [Laughs |

AV auch |

AR: - Yeah that's 2 good idea So I igured. oh shit, it's going to happen, then |

zving 1o e the one to hase o do i
AN Right

w

NM: - Anthons. can sou hold that though. 1 just want 1 save s where swe are now s 0 ke

sure it [the recording] doesn'tget oo long. | don't want amy problems

technolosy

FNDOF CD#1-[5300)

Aih:

AR

Key Sectom COM: 2f
[ap——
+ Anicis Bk Coss (ALC) & P [3.35]
+ Prisoen and ine 5331
+ Seun Lamber and ittt prisncs s (821
O ST —)
+ Volume of o st por month (2010]

* Underground cconomy of tamps in prisons

 Distibution sues with zines

431)
o Prisonce wriings (27:43]

* Conterences [36:42]

o zins e [3912]

o Persanal thoughts un his experiences [47.20]

Continuing with Asbony Rayson isiervicw on October 11, 2008, 1 believe you were
alking sbout that you were goimg 1 be the gy  hase this distibution for ol i these:
ditterens cines.

e, 0 1100k them all and uh, some of them were well ormatied and some o them
ere kind of sloppy. some of them had oo information and some of them didn't. S0, |
ried  tighten some of them up, y0u know, 50 if the were blank pages o partial puges.
So. ' learning how 10 edi, basically. But | oy didthat fo ke two...0wo of three.
uariers. hese things would come out quarterly, and [sic] but they were 5o unreliable:
about sciding them 10 me und I'd send them back und 5o one would ever evén comnest
o it or any hing, 14 get nothing. And then plus, | reaized, you know, tis s good s,

butthe material s not sery oo I's like dated, youknow. s o, avcan, i's ok for
Mu;

AR:

AR:

3 couple of momi 4. bt then ho cres what happened i Saskatenan on - ¢~
Febraary 12, you know. There was a e confontation with some Nazis o somethine.
Whcares you know. s over with. 1 dted. But alo during this time | was stating
10 you know. o make moreissues my zines that | hound and send them all over and als
1 s puting it ad for ms 7ine n arious publications. zines..zie reviews. | sent
ther 0 get reviewed. | send them for ..and the | found out about cther distro. you
. | then Fdth distropub eview: you knowlke the cataog of distros.

Okay.

So. 1 was leamming wha that was al about. 1t was kind of sic] | didn’trealze while I wa<

this that this was what | was sort of becoming. you know. I go t0. lot of

conferences all over the country and I°d always slean through all of the tables and grsh
the zines | wanicd 1o read orthat | thought were good. And if | was especialy stricken by
a7ine. | wanted t share it with other peaple someho. you know. | didn't realize how 10
do that et. o | would just sort of collect them and uh. but then 1 sort of dropped the
whole ARA thing. And 1 actually dropped out of ARA ahtogether because | was having
problems with the ARA in Chicage. I coulda’t get along with people. you knenw.
personality-wise. you know.

Okay.

So. | justchanged it to South Chicagn ABC. | took the ARA out and just concentrated on
the ABC hecause [ was very impressed by Lorenzo Kumbo Frvins seminal tract. which
've got. you've prohably seen i, called “Anarchism and the Black Liberstion Struggle”
He's asically the godfuther of the medern ABC movement. He's also. good friend

mine now. today. We're actuall going to work up a nice journalprety soon.

 And ABC stands for.

MM

Tt stands for Anarchist Rlack Cross which

@ suppont groun that saried n 190<

Okay
Anthony R. Ravson

NI FE R (G RN

ey Bz
110 asdrasy

Tk sou. 1'6 1ike o eicoms sverytods on thia saahanting aftemmocn.

ATIEA MMCERSON TAUGHT NI PINST TVO CLASSES. SKE 13 ALARADY A AIGEL 13 Hiavix.

First, T wuld 1ike o tank &y vife, Losiie, or providing se vith geatie, Joriie

sacouagenrat, giving se the Laatua Lo Felumm to school. 1 want ta thask o soss,
ety ipcvlitvia

Praiie State Collags Walesictas

L gl
1’8 EPEMLBICING DO W. T 414n'% know ow sounger
Sisonta today wnld ake 4 e, Mch o Ay fellel, T found 10U to ve friently ot
sagnging. 1'% alaid 1 doat saderatand yous sveic, Uough -~ ot suugh Fock n-colll
The professars ot Prsirie State are of Meh quality. Thay are halpful. gooucous

11" Uhei ine, 4nd lntacesting people 18 their oua right. The sdainistrators
iadicated sot siomatbln. T enjoyed my classes. OC coucss, T alse paid for then.

Collage 10 A1l akout Learaing —- but 1t doesa’t sok thece. Vo here given
parvelous inds 1n which to diract our thoughta, sxpress our smotions and Sentrol oo £
tctions. The st iajortast thing to have yout Math -Learn” 18 1o Learn hor 1o thLck

Loped the wblltty to think ratiosally, intalTiguatly,
aimdectically, critioaily, inaignieully, thowntfully, purposetully, amaisghudly -- oo
truth 1o ummeicoms. Any 4itustion sy be sastared.

Vhat a1 saying? 'a sasing you muat read (hick mon-flation tooks,
legitinate litaraturs nd urite oonatantly (letters, stories, poess, shatersr.)

Soak out ohuoure, TROGKISSIVE. Surnale; magasines and okl ioutione:

Don't balivve the governasat. THET AAE FLANNING 10 WILLDOZE RY IOUSK FOR At
AINFORT VI TIG AIILIKES CON-T VAXT. T VILL DRSTION MOEE, UNIVEISITY PARK, CAKTE,
IECER, FSDTONE, RSN GAADD AND CAAVELY IKPACT RANTINO, MAMKATIAN, RICHTOH'PARC
D PARK FONEST.” JUST SAT O T0 CORFISCATION AND OBLITERCTIOH, CaN' 100 HEAR K,

JIN EIGAKT Doa't beliove the Lelevision, nemsgapess of shat jeople tall you,
DACLUDING M. Quaation svary thing il you sstisly yourselt,

Evaryons taa & diffarant Leaperasest. Ve auat leamn to ive in ynchscry
sith oursalves. Belag geatle, loving, oilte, And sapathelic are uaeful AtLibutes
T4% & mockery of 11fs o be Jatifiably wlilesile.

Charish 7our suaia. It la there uhan e celsbrate, yot ramine & close friscd
han dapretaion lurka.  Parscsalise taes for your fastly asd friemds o Give thes ans)
11k grooting cards.

£ the world. Life dosan't xevlve sround narica sad
iolence and salfish consmecian. Got real

Ute yoiz tody actively. Find something fun to do Uat requires serticn
Dance 1o the mate. Give your brain soaetiing Lo be feoud of.

Go places and do thinga. If your focus 1n not siclotly on yourself asd the
steuggle for the Alaighly dallar, 1ife can be savored sone:

To ta young end baadthy with plenty of time to sty is priceless. Stuy sod
earn.” Davelope your intellsctun) parsenadity for dulthood.” If you san ears 10 think
without llarier mtives, sverythiag vill fall into flace. Tou wil) be calaly ap

04 salf-ansured. Tou ¥iL1 Find & loving mate and AL1 the Mensings tal sataiis:
Tourl] hae sneugh 1o sut and Loye ta Fisy wiin.

In closing, 1 offer thie suggestion. Listen carefully to shat childrsa are
saying. ‘As'they strugcle aLgMILy 1o got big, hey Are LTing o tell s st 1a
Saportant in (hle vorld. Kake the drstas of enlldren your very ova sruasde.

“TUANCS FOB CORIN" FOW,  DAD AMD EVERTEODT BLSE.
Aaathes Anterscn died the day before, Kay 19, 1995.
inatructor vith & beart of pure gold.

Capitalinet vords dasots additions 1o official acript.

o prp—

anthonyrayson@hotn

W

an

w®

Veah. it was for anarchists in Ruscia that . is like a pec<age of things to come hecause

anarchists arund the world would trs t send money. food, and clothing and whatnot to

28

in 1905, Rutall this [sic] everything was

imprioncd anarehiste after the esoluton

el through the socldemocran, the Rosbeviks,the Mensheviks,and they made
e hing et o he snarchist prisoners. So.there b 1o b separse group tht
et el it the snarchist pisners o the would gt othing. So his sared in
190 and it chbed e flowcd and hd sarious impac ere s there around the ek,
i Kind o et demans for ong perids of e, Rt inthe mid 80 when L orenzo

ame un, sou ko, and updated this whole iden of serious prison support, uh. that's

when it ot of ook ek And 1 hink n 1994 or somcthing ike tht hre was  group.
tartcd n North Americn and Camada.called the ABCT. the Anarchis Black Cross
Federation. And thes are il going tody. oo

on

And they are ke a

‘ou know. they hasically focus on recognized political prisoners
Thes provide stipends. monthly <ipends for these, not ecessarily anarchist prisoners. but
ik Mack Liberation prisoners snd Panthers and whoever has fought the govermment and

e comiced hecane of it

Oy

That's what they pretey much focus on. So um. anysway. | thought that was really

s esome. bt 1 6idn't feel comfitable joiing their group. 1 didn’t want to he confined.

S k. they have

e et ofrulesand what you've got o do. Youse got o send
e cortain amount of moncs. This i whatth byl are and all his sufl. 1 i’ |
anted o he o oo than hat. st call mself ABC amyway and justsred
igring ot o 0 do prisonr st on ey v, And it smed the more ha et

vy sine o and e sines 1 would send sometimes, 1 0idn'treally have a disto yet. |

“vean. | didnt 1 havg mnch of  colle

A

A
(8:20)

AR:

ealy et ko the whole Jitao mindsct watl sbot bt V8. And that's whett |t <d
that the st atculate cetiqucs of the 2ines and alo e actasl it st | o

29

i ing was coming uut o the pr

No kidding,

el The most brilliant weiting and the st atacing ok s th et .
ritigue of Ty oW Work, the st s and i Dhost Lk 30wt e and sl it
et type of thing. You'd et these e serawls from all thes ane gy, e

magaci

0y, You'd et nothing. You'd gt form ketters and pustcards son 4 big bl

oF noing. 1 the T yoing 0 wrke any hing s s snide garbuge. S0 ks s that

e me ofF, you know. 115 ik i Bigh schiool i the 30050y vplé i high sl
and tha's what sees 10 control the wnderground, e matisira underground ks

Vou kiow, the, the, whatever they all ar. | do

ven handly deal with any ot sy
more. But. for « while | s rally. | was s oy 13 g 0, well b, “Uhat onc conss
was pretty briliant, but this ther thing, uh, | dou't Ko what the bl is” aou bl

blah, b, 1t was 100 miliLant o 10 honestor lu real for e to deal with, An

reviews 0T my work idn't v alk about what | s saying, you haos. They svundes

the subject, and they just s, “Well i's i i soppy ™ of this ot that. It it o

anything, you know. It was another chosed oot with s et g, Bt with prisuces |

could realy deelop s collaboratin e

clativaship. 0u kaow. That's what | s hovnisg
for. When st wrote my st Fhouight Boumbs”,you wiie ike an otrodti

Yeuh

In pan of the introduction | was sssng

5 that | s i the st Fes oty

e 0t il writng out there and work with those perple and get 1t out e s 1

s o prople that would sppreeiste it you hnow. Su. 30 this was the way

e
A around then. his gy ramed Scan |t wha s it Bisericl aichint

That's how he comid

w York e sort of e e .

el Ot ot

i

an

w

e

S el AR ok bt it s Kind of a waste oftime lere’s where the real deal

[

since 20

b

conmections Wit pricaners and e wrote these dense intense prison

A ars b sl was mentored it i, really. And o | rally got nto it

bt

feet s o \nd that's what Fye heen doing hasically ever since. And so. you kno.

coninued. ub. v put s in ther publications, mostly prisoner poblications now.

prisene appor piblications

Ok
Fimtt ot prisen el conferences insead offust amarehist o whatener it s
ok

Confirences

e become sers focused in  certain way

e and ke 1 aid earli

Vdo.n

Vb 1< much more dealing with pri L work with s

T o8 ifTerent pecple, different philosophies and viewpoints. |

youknow, since i's

o1 decide what 1 hink s saluable or, you know, deserving to e added. you

K Ao, e seseral years of constanly <ending sines free o prisoners and

b s

s sanes them, T descloped a respect amone all prsoners el that

S amhing shout it Amdthes really do ac xonT ie) a Il show you, e ot some

A ttere b 11 e <ample of shat's g on Yeah, hecause everyone has.

e ot it it hey e strweling in their own way. Yesh, I'm an

180 et s st 3 <o of heghtened aaremes of hings. 15 not o

ety s kw1 st i nd the way | feet it~ proside people

A ks i o thoseht and fet e decide for themselyes and | hase confidence

It thes ke  have

et for el that 3 strone amaschis e ofthinking is

avine 1o e the st gad So, i thes don't eree with that. that< fine. That's what

hex derided 1 do, yom ke
[140] 2/

MMM low o the prsons, el 5, et 10 that? Do ey *

AR The adminitaion?

MM U,

AR They can't s i, They e i

MM So, sometimes o s il bt huppens?

AR Well. it docsnt gt thre. They dissppear. They may be st back. [her's  huge st
fessans why the, o, the st s i

MM o, thess v prsan sminsration s o are thy LS. Lws ot ¢

AR Prison admisisstion ks

MM Ducs that vary by sta?

AR ariesund i vrie by the emperanentof s ot choh ot ot i

MM Okay

AR: L mcan, it may depend o whether that o ks who s alrand . |t
o ron. Thee's o consiteny. Thete’s i accountaorliy

MM S0 300 ol s nc 0 one prsonce i the i 3o st 19 st st ey
ol be deniod?

AR: - Exactly. Expesilly if ' o the uthor imscl o el and hey ¢ kg abont
prison. Tt theun thing they cant s, Ty o't whet s g o
Prson 0 gt around. S busially ey i b i bt well ot s, £t

this caveatthat says. ub, wel, this s detrimental t the sl unctionung of (s

Like we are a ertorst thrca, basially. Bevatse of thee s, We're ging 1 o

cevolt and get them all, you know. And it gets rdiculous. | ren

€y g | s
o bt the desale g vl o he Chippens i up i s W o
about e ety ights e, And i urt o i, e s i v ot pye
Penisala. I st shovws . the ] i thear tht the Uiy b cd s o

etore they were hovald i fesertions. Su | e hat i b & oot s of ot
s

"

e

n

e

w

Aickigan 32

oy

1 atueh ] And they reected it hecaue the map ould help him escape. Laughs.| Utirly

O, thot'< interestine. |1 aughs | Recause they don’t have hars and wre, Gght? O the
s, Okay.

A o ke a ot of times t i refected for  [resson] sagucly caled, “acial

el Well, i atraist. We'r o romeding racism. We're explining wha it s
e, i< cobd e bt ' aainet it 30w know. bt ht i scem o maer
Were e opmosie f what thesareciming that e v bt thar's why i i eeced
e e are deling withracial subicts O, ah, some of thegraphicsthes don't ke,
ecially i hey ‘e showing - ik one was Kind of ad. heconer— s called. D't

Ntk the Guards Handhook” Forget i I wot a picture

A i e dran by another prisoner?

Neah They didt ke that one oo much, B, sou know. they don't even

Washington state rejected it They didn't

e im o, ke the cartoon 7ine, “Cilee €

even come i with  reasan. Thes just don'tlike puards heing made fun of So there was

it er that was rying . sou know, draw up a awsuit 1o fight that. sou

s complicated to do these fights.

Ko and 1w iy ing s hel im with i, bt i
these b you ko, st Amendment rights fights. In Oregon they made a big deal ahout

e A w

he cicle amund it They claimed it was s gang symbol. So anything with o

Ihe anarchiet cicle [ssmbol], you're refering to

Ve, And ' <o supid hecause shen | wae working at 1alted Street in the toll Rooth—

¢ National Guaed. cvers Saturday theyd come thrnogh there and they d have that same
<l Thiswas theirunit {1 uehs ] Thex went on manewere, you know. It'sa

Norional Guard ssmbol Wt even when | write leters | alwaye fnish Anthony and | put
AL

AR:

AL

AR:

3 0 Dk ol . oty i

avincle oy A They ot v ket e

ke’ some kindof secet gang (1D ighal that ke, “whay. vty ok 7. 5w

Know, 1 absolutely rdiculous. And sometimes this eads 0 hormii sieatiors Wbt
33
hese people are uamereitully besten, gased, sered

The prisaners who et znes from you?
vt them s that it thetn especially

And there’s etaliation for them participating ...

kit Ve i

Ob yea. yea, 1 iahes o ot of courge for them 0 b a partof this

s s

o these other mainsream radicls sy "UR. 300 shoukdn't b

what's happening 10 these prisoncrs. They e hun because of what sou'se doung ™ Wi

what 1'm ey g 10 o s gt the ruth ot 30 k. AR these guys v will

opy
st ey i it will help et the ruth ot | mncan 1 very serous thisg, i 1 his
decision. They e going 10 be beaten anyway, and ubuscad and e hing iy was ~

matir what they do. S0 ot beast thers rying 10 do sommARIR, o Ko, 15

so's b st

educateoher pevple and the, you . st ol A
el ik b i struggle Ui, you know, yo Bear gl s cemmrep i e
hingsar geing wors and mre sy and bt b [Sara] Pain sy
pull books ot of bt up i Absskaand thi . Well, that hat, 00 k.
idculousand ctandd and e b, bt i Pt i . s Lt iy st
pulling boks ut. ey Bave o onger have ccess bl R of ks 1< i

legallibary. They are even

ied access 1o being i the egal bearis i they i
sttt they deem 1 b contraband beause s againt hei rul fOF S0t \sgox

s, ke u ine that sy, is tlkir 3 agains the gorer

e whaeer Ty can
Py severely. They can, [sic] they have a deal whet they. uh, i al the prsos. Uy <
ack on e 0 theie scasences i i ronth ncrennents dus 10 siolations of i rukés

S these can actually v

i cime, thought cimes, <a exictal et s

They can move from level vac, two thice, four. e all 1he ey 1o e Bk .0
it s e ofthis Kind of Sull So it < resl dangerous sination, espcially
e we ae trying to destros the <ystem. We are iy ing to ducate people and sart
iy gronps and teach them whe their real enems: s, I's ot the other guy in the cell

it the different colored skin and a different name. 1's these guards and this warden and

the whole svstem that ou knos. We tcach them how they. why they

o people. s

e he i ey are. W teach them how they hecame criminalized. what it means fo be
criminalized. hos they ean overcome it how they can actuslize themselves, you know,

™

ey do' st isonrs o hesome themsees, They don'twant them.. ey sant
them o comsring. s, docileand it ther and wotch TV sl dny. Thar's ht thy
want 39

e

NN Om e, o many inesper. | don't k. per month dn ou send 1o prisners? Do
Sou have ke 3 hallpark e

B Uh.Fd oy et abour, oh, | don't ko, st 70 lettrsa week.

A Vet

LI

I Pha' quitesgnifican.

AP Vesh.thar's o of nense work every da. So L | usualy send mashe a couie n each
ome Irackagel < mayhe 190 per week

W oty

O T rerictons.-postal retictions, and les s he pefsons enfrce

A ke N paces hey can receive o,

R e weight

AN Theweieht o

AP Somerimes. it is the ameunt of publications they can receine

AR Since fane st of 08, e posalretrictions or 3 eter which i what | work with, the

I s theey o on Bll ounces. And Uhats BncIGG hects 1467 3 ¥ i

S0 tally iy o iz o hat o 551 Whih s i Sinst sts. 35”

s sinty-Four pages. That's ety goundexpecally if y o concentate

o Ao s
o't s PUpCT:Just conarate e wriang and smaller . Suteties i s ot
prisoncs, | make then sutle, | sk them read iy print becatsd Uat's he W i€ gt

1002, you know. According o me. (1 aughs | So.

MM:  Well, when there' retrictons on,

AR: Yo You have 10 do it that way

MM how much mnaterial can be seo nd reseivd o 4t

AR: - Right, and then you Know. i's expensiv and | don wan salf i sctt buck besuos
they cancel the postage nd s & waste of pustage and ' 3 e ol i and il
Athough.

12209]

MM And you e giving these free 1 prisoncrs?

AR Yo, they e fr.

MM A that's our postage’

AR:  Yeah, L ask for donations i they cun, but ety -fie pere<ntof thetn aré indigeit ik

more than tht. Sometines they [sic] they sead stamps. o though they o

There's an underground ecomoms in the prison with staips. S, Kt inadic

obaceu; whatev et they i is bartred amongat hem. Andsounctins sty we <t

e, we can help cach ater, like il

W them  postal moncs wnder ot b thaty

buchs and they Il send me o hundeed stamps. forty-two centsamps. ey Tl v thut
Pl money onder 10 g0 8 the commissiry and buy s bunch of Kaaion toles 1t iy

sl that they et o twety cents apicce of whateser and they 1l il

SLAmp. S0 we can buth make vt you . Because mos prisoiies,

they e 50 hopeless and they 't 0 trsumatied i beain sshed il burid st s i

e chosed e thinking that they Jon't v wont 4 stamip. s o . ot i et
€ 1o o them have pschelica,serous s chological roblems d tes
it o e e ill i hem, bt he o gt tamps someho,some
o them S pison llo prisoners i, Some il send samps o hem 3 6,
“hinkin that will. . knewingtht and some prsoners e’ slowed 1 receive samps
an come pisoners rentllod o send samps. | meam every single ot s diffrent
i< s complcsid siusion 1o t naigat through o gure ot he most,the

o bl heneficial way to go shout all of

sou know, and what exactly 10

<end hem. 1 have to deci

that [sic] that 1

prison.that sate i reall coming down

hard on Sori

el 1 can't send him this Let's iy send him this, something real mild
s ifit et in and if <0 may he we can work our way to sending him something more
hat e resly wants.

AR T

e

AP St real chess game il thefime. Some of he,fike one of the more popular anes is

Fisoree Jackson's “Soledad P

*and “loed in my Fye 1 reformatied that so.

ol

Peother” i ninetcen shects. o i, that' fine. Bt “Rlood in my Exe™ | send

i Roklets, one i ety pages and one of them is seventeen. So | have 1o <end them in
o ifferent packers Plus  hase to take 2 knife o the twenty page ane and dice off the

marsin 1 knnch the weight don 103 nineteen page thing. You know. <o whenever | do

3 i 36" e ke Ko ot and ot o R
A O

AR some of he s e ind cut ofT an tes hane 1o d th hes that they cam it .
W e

T e under weight.

there’s anether [sic ke some of these other

obications fike *The Match or

ineworl

“they re thicker. They are like four or five

cunces. Well that, afer theee of four ounces the price skymekets I's ral expensive. And
37
b

AM: - For pustage

.

AR: Yoah Butthey bad a special deal it was calld bound printed watcr Bt oo the
wllway [Laughs, the post offce is cuting that out 1. S0 they "re puting pressue v

these small publishers, y0u know. They want 1 ave it 50 00 v 10 have & nhass

mailing, you know, where you hase 1 buy like a $250 un st thing and then $250

ollars 8 year 10, 10... | that with STAND with the pupsrs e were doing. W é Sl
s g that way. 1 0u o 4t 000 o8 2,500 o whaterer it . it doss get chewpt.

ot cheaper. But, if you're Joing thein like 1'm doiti them, une a1 time wnd theo il

T youkaow, all inds of dilferent publications.

MM: Yesh

ARSIt was just e ssue of something then 3o coukd scand 250 out
bttt ot howw it works. you ko, 30 you have o igune out the best was 10 g0 under
the radar with all this, yu Ko, and suune of these olher ine peuple. they < igute i

out or whatever. Chey e not willig 0 figure it out and o they are just guing o c-zincs

MM So ey going o th et ad 0 blogs?

AR: Yo, butthatcuts ou people that don't s compues and ey sigle prsont
Because ot on f them s risoncr s, | et cen.

MM To s omputer...

AR S0, i very s bl thi

3o0u kanow. And even sill, how tany pevple that hav

Sl have o or thrc obs tht ar bl stayin from bing et ot of e s
e ing 0 be plging ot -incs. That' ot ha hey e i i o dai
about Lt 00 ive them  publicaton tht xplins what's i .

phone rings]

MM D you need w get that?

AR: - Well,uh, | don' know,

fR— 33

"

w

w®

€S e are recording gain. Okay. <o we just had a rief pause to and | helieve sou

were. comeet me if I'm wron. | beliexe you were speaking about prisaner zines, And if

o don't mind my asking. how iy determine what prisoner writings to publish?

Well ir<a

iective thing. h. at this poi

.1 sic] ook to support growps tht are, ur.

xplaining somethine that  feel is meaningful for <omehods. ke um if they talk shout
racm o what's hapyning. sou knew.  them, from their own perspecive, you knaw.
o Fmay ot agree with their idenlogs which may be Mack natianalist, communist or

why . Rt hasic

L1 e some i

ight i there that other people can elate

o than st

ihey deserve to sec it you know. And that then, vou knovw, unless if

i< ite homophoic o &

women. | won't do it Or at lenet | will severcly it tht

1 And then scold them about it and ellthem, 1'm o going o print this, you have to
it this hing o something”. hecause I'm ot going o tlerate it vou know. So
hasically that ind o S, th stuid ignorant sl | e t publish. Bt then again, |
don’t want o he 3 cenenr o what they have 10 <ay

Richt.

S sometimes. what they <ay may secm ohiectionable but they may want to explain why.

hes feetthat way. you Know, expl

hei frtration and whatever. And Il [sie] [Tl
denending on what cle it involted. you know, 1 may et them do that. vou know hecause

Pasicall they are cuting i their own arguments. sou know. AU leastthat's what thes e

eine o do. 0w know. B, there e severalprisoncrs. dorens reals. that | work with
Kind ofregularls who. uh. | sic] 1 respect their writing ahlity and focus on the suhject.
At el 1L ie] 1Ly know. swork up theie stuff 1 depends. 1  judgment call

coch time 1 have several manuscripes that lay n w

e that people send me suffall the

vime that thes want o parts of tafike poems or escays. And | can never get around to

denine with it resly. ST sont of prioitize things and depending on the nature of it
Whether s ke tme-spexific st o hind of it up ot i | pronuined o

hat T would o it you Rnow 1 Risdof hekd 10 that. 3., 3o Kot 1l 6 i
e 10-say and Fgure out what 'm going 1 do. There’s iso some sttt that 1l o it
Collests several people’s mateial 1 vus publicaion. Like recently o te Sivp Mas

conference | was st i Philadelphia, | put ke thenty-s¢ten Jifictenn subtuissanis tuit

prisoncrs in there. They were ol basivally Rovusing 18 0n <ontrl uaits. Aad somne. s
K. sorme i mhore, e . ahuable and well- Wt i o o Ut o1t But s

e it thes s sy 11 all ot

Kaow, |4l think these guys.
necesurily. ', depends. i s casy 1 o or i 10 0 4t s ot 1 big o de 1
i3 not goi

10 take that much time. moncy. paper o wherewithal 0 do, thea ll o

Hor them, just becuse it is mporsantio themn. s very. very meaningful o them 1o lest

Par of a biger thing, 1 kow that someone’s out the that i 4 i sbusd Wt
they say and 10 show whr pupl, o givethrm alidtion nd that “Hk vk, | gty
Sl published.” Because | now buw it s o b 10 e the dowr samned i 300 L
and they on' want 1 publish your sl e hough o ik ' sl

MM:  Righ

AR: Thene's 50 one. Noune’s publising any of my s oo s even dstnbuting a1 o1
my Sl 1 just Kind of ad commint on il these e sttty S0 ycah, U1
o what ] can s bt . y0u Ko, And ey el that gy and st it it
ommiument and that eslly i e them ot of gt o know b, W elp
ach othr: wessengthen cach othcr up consandy. So s, 1l ol | ca ity

know | wil and they kaow I'asinsanely busy al the time and | am. And, but It .

nothing cls, 1l writ them a letier and tll them, “Hey look, you ks, I el busy. |

don’t know i

can do any hing with your tuf May b you can s i st s

and 1l e what | an do wit

o that

7 O maybe Ul ey 0 reter them w sonneor

sy be willing o el

. You know there’s other, e have this sort of ikt givaund

this bouse colltive of sunirly discn peoplé that work ith st S i ot
e

e
ane

N

s

"

ranscrine theit <tuff and put it 3l ogether. There's no that many of us, bt sometimes |

an farm some of the work out 3 e Nt especially i the prisomer s from theirarea orif

"< oman prisoner and there’s  person wirking on it wante o focut on women

privancrs o someting e tha 40
Okay. A the hersine penple o are thse just ommanity-frcused groups and

individals”

Veah They are sine people. They can he aitached to like a prisoner support group.
Okay

th st have ther owe Tl group of prisamers that

They may he ke priate individual

thes work with that have heen cnthused hout my work,

For sady purposes or different hings”

Veah. support work. Sometimes they Il publish o print <tff from these prisoners and

then send it hack e the prisomer <o that he can disribute it and or what ever, But then
e and the prisomers have tld me ahout that and so 'l end them st and then they 1!

anpreciate that ' enthused shout it and say. “Tley i there anything T can doto help

THex. you know., if you need somebody fo

s Sometimes. a | stine prisomer will sy

trnclte sines into Spanish. | can do that”So. I'm tying to help and get a guy who's

aring 10 do <ome of that,especially if they e [7ines] are ahout Flores Magnon or

\hat's soing on in Mevico or Columbia or whates er. you know. ifit's of the wmost

intereet o them. then 11 ry .._you know. it depends, P, ther”s a constant problem of

Tarinees and umaceountabilin and lack of accountabilit. i« huge manuseript

0 this gy in Cleveland whe s part of an ARC group that does publications o trnscribe.

1< heen over a vear o and thes e not done with it I kind of aggraafing 1o me

hecauce | fecl we have an obligation t0 these prisoners 1o try and he as fimely as possible

xen though there i s maney at sake. | mean this this [<c] this means everything to

hem o o, <0 1t ntill that semse of areenes e people but there™eonly 2 few

o cam el <y that hase it he way 1 do.
lie:2]

A,

AR

My

AR

A

A

AR;

N

e

A are 0 o thes s poupl: a3 e discisti G AGT s i
are these the people that go 10 the conterences s well or.. 1l

eah, some, some. 1 ike this person, these othcr pevple

Clrcland.they i gt
the Stop Ma conterence.

S0 who normally yocs o s of Uhese comtenes?

Wl there's ditlreot 1y pes of s,

Ob. ok

Ther el ditkren i, | mcan, it depend o whilth o i f
conierense s

Oh.ohay. e

e, there was e o e ek g s Ot it . s ot g
There was Crical Reistance en-ycar contne.

Ohay.

Criical Resistance is prson abvltion

oup with chptess ll oves the cousury. but

they're Kind of like gon some serious funding. They & got pevpl ke Angels Dusis
ki them and you know academia i part of it and als alot of thess olbt groups

With ABC,

ity uteol-puchet. We dont i any spossats. We do' v
by We really don' [1aghs.| We st gt el s ko i o
i

hisis goud purspesive:

VIl show youthe program from the contesene thes had. 105 ke  tegolat b 30

Kaow. ofall e workshps
Oh right Bt you atend 4 ok of ot

Wl ot 1o e | have a regular wage ke job. only have e weshs il
eurand | can nly o that . ' g0t Wi o Kids. yo k. iyt

ight S0 Basicaly, 1l stich 0 the Midwest. You ke, 1 g o Phitadeiphia s M

+m.snd 1 have gone o places ike Montreal, and Oregon, Austn, Texas, you know, all

4 Teanessee. Ohio, Wikconsin, whatever. But, | don't get o go o near as many as

Hlike 10 hecauce | just don't have the time. h, ' going 1o go 1 one next week in

oz

e

"

g

"

e

w

e

n
e

w

e
R
e

w

Nfativn, Wisconsin 1< reolar 7ine e qr
ooy
Rt tht. the whole hing s 7ies, sou know. A ' g 0 tabe snd ' going o do

3 workshon, And acually. | made  ine of my workshep.
G for o, What's e fcus of that oing o be?

AR ok, 1 righ et This i s ochsho. ' gt reod i ine a art of
-

kst <o o e ing e e spesking on Tmpocring Fducation {sing Zines”.

e I <a 7ine conference. S that' what I'm going 1o talk sbout. \nd tht that explains

ot of <tuff about what . Actuslly. it  prety pocd primer.

Sl v prkabi be talking ahout exersihing sou do. the prisoner work and

i that e well s the iy -to-day 7ine operations?

1 thing i

ety Fwrote 3n utline that | submitted as a propesal o my workshop.

ot ormizer upthere. A b, thar's what just g by he ek, by the ctine
3nd 3 k. 1t explain tht st 20 by the shole e nd i them .
e paraph o coch pan of

Pt

it st of sick o ha, | skttt e,

oty

And I'm goi

o say focused on what | did send them explaining what | was going to
do T ' alen ening to work with a Iady that works with in hroks.to-prisoner program

i there She went 10 thie Critical Resistance Ten conference where she met this iiend of
M,

M

AR

MM

mine whose name is E1a Cetera, Laughs] who runs 4 prisun pusit project and s work
busically with prisoner s, S0 she put 4 113 10getht about ll he Pt stavin

Ohwow 13

S0 we're going 0 screen the il and then she's going 0 Lk Ltk Bit st 1 A 151

going 10 do mine and then we're gorng 10 hane & it gueston wid saswer. Lt wil o
ur workshop.

Oh,very nice.

Then Pl uble and bring b bones of incs up there 0 s st

And you nework up there with other._?

AR Veah, with wher disinbutors and inc publishers. [hsre wil b s sl 4l it
itirent, you ko, goups and s

NN o many groups show up a an ik this?

AR: U this i st oy el ome st sl 1 oy o b v s

MM 1 g sl conteencs

AR: I like s comvergence,  ve-Bour deal. S0 woud e, | o ik, b 0k
Weunly et bl bl 10 b wilh

MM Ohmy

AR il e 1 ould probably use sl i ke you gt

MM [Lughe | Absitly

AR: o Lonly ot it Rl table S i il e e e, ey s s
Soukaom. I's ke oty thm s,y ko, W heress b evple wh, s
prisoncs who relyon this hy el the mporiance of ll of . ot peophs v i
out, s il ke, you Ko, “Wht i thi, man.” but i1 kst i sk coner ot
i g o, ot gimate, That's o o poople sl ar, 3 k.

1236)

MMM Do you v think tha pat o the i comumuanity i et n e s ot s

thean aret ey b plticaly setive and thes have thes o bias?
"

Oh.yesh. Most. 3l vnes are what | all nacl-gazing rines. They're just persamal, you

. the‘re ahout music o they‘re ahou they what they did o their

esandyon gy

knens. thes don'tcare ahout history o <eciety or analysi, you know. ' about, or some

- yine Kites. or whatever it i that they

are taking showt, thar's, ot . 3o ko, weapon of . o kno.
a wesnon i thieareeml ke it for s, 1ot st of ke a astme. And then, s
A, R« ha hey want o o thar' e Bt thar's ot wha ' inerested i and
S0 1 oot deatwith thse peple. There's o reason 101 don't have enough ime fo

amalyze why you ke burterflies so much. |1 sughs | So thee i kind of a fiction. | puess.

herween serons pl types ike me and

al peopie cspecially prison sholition anarch
he main-ctreams types that would really ke 1 get in on a mainsrcam job. and you

Ko sk, write o <ome magaine o something. bt con't break into s s0 they have.

i in the meantime, whatever, unil hey. et 0 clirh up that cconoeic lder, sou
Koo e o iferested inccomamics. We're no scling anthing. We'rejut ning
e s . previde s and et peple g from there. And thar's he relpowerof
7ins in my pinion. They do have hat psentia todo tht, you k. Bk dev oo, for
it e, o . o curtarget sicnce ndigesprisone,there's o mones 0
e 3ny . A s ot ol ht he e thes e hehind concerin wire,haed
i, electonic uveillnce, guntoing s, towers,wall and bar Ther's ]
“here el ke i he . scu know. 1o do hs.I's ot ik fst sccing some gy
o the et o ering <omeplace. ' whole diferent animal Peole do't evenralze

it whole sy i€ thee. sou knaw. They are s cloistered away in the middle of

mwhere in these riral communities. 1°s orrible. And some of the most hriliant people.

Prisen A hat'c Kind of why they arein prion hecause they refse 1o go along
Wit the proeram. Thes v des cloped their own. you knew. way of going about things,
o . st it inside of he s, With 2 mllion laws "< n too hard o eross it

1F 3o want o o way of doing thing< and sou think thatsou should b able o, you.

cul and if o e i 4 targeted

oot well you koo, they throw those gy in jal just ke Aarcn T

Paterson got st up. Wt happerd with him sas they Pusted this md-level g, i

this Chicano guy inthe ity and be tohd therm, IF you bt me ot | can deliset Aarv

Patterson.” S they st i up s they Wanted 1o get away ey e hein

0. S ko by wery

politcally cmbarrassed by bim and Fred g e

o some bust. you know. He thought b had things under conrol. b he dida 10 <any

o getsucked into und manipulaied. So. anyway . Where would sou fike to g o

the

1a7:20]

MM

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s just o 10 say. | think this s b grest. | hink y0u'v¢ prety iuah hasdied i1

o the notes that | have scratchd out here without my, prompting you cven {1 augins ||

Would just like 10 Kaow i you would ke 0 add anything el ut this tim,

Well.um. | plan on continuing to d this. s (5

5 heen wtemifc way for e
contioue dex cloping m own writig: | mean the quality of my owa wring. heing
0. uh. pck the brains of other thinkers and writrs and writing long thosght-illed icict

and [sic] and expressing ideas through eters. 1s rally enabled me 10 becumne 4 beicr

writer, 10 deelop ideas and cssays or whates

T doing. 115 like anyhing <t s

practice . you get good at . Uh. that's what this i rely all sbout. Practcing and
ettng gooding [laughs]
[Laughs.]

and gt gond expressng s 3ou el through words. Now sarlet | lked st s

came ot and st anted o prese s and | didn't e sbowt graphics Wil § ¢
come around,

ILaughs.|

And 1 realiced that graphics are extremely important o and thes ol .

other rally el b of them. A they il they st of acecniu

bt

i

il and. ok, i e it orks. So tha t me has heemarcal b
g sl hat s ot of taght my el o o o i ot e all o these

thines tother inthese publicaions to make 8 sort of a powerful whole of a7ine. Fach

ine i Tike @ o or something. 1 has a beginning and it sor of buikds up and then sort

o crescendos and it has momenis o excitement. And it's s complte thing, It something |

13 10 make & whode 50 that when thes e done s

it they go. “Wom." you kaow.
1 sughe |
And they rercad it and they pass it around and then they get someone to print it | mean

' <ort o fike 4 perpetual motion machine. I’ [sic]i's a.  lso ry to make them so

“hes arc ey cas o oy | mean these v simple 81,2 117 inetyfie percentof
hem. | mean. there' cons machines everywhere. And thos aen't hrd 0 access. You
TSk 0ol who ok here. Yo gt ol o hep you with i can b done, il
Rasikalls e don . ike b el thars going 1 b done, it bl down t0

illoosser and what yow really want to do with t, What i

our purpose in doing this? Do

00 a0 st express oursell. do you want o just alk about our e and what it was

e honping frei those [rines], Bt if

rains or whatever. (k. you can do thi
S0 ovent s to help oher eople reaize wht i i themsels s and hecome
thermsclies, then it pens it p to the whole world, It hecomes dangerous and i hecomes

xphosine And that's why the prisons are s intent on trying to shu this whole thing

n They don'twant these people o realize wha's going on or wha they can make of
therrsclves hecause. heh. the truh is we're in a horrible social situation and the
evemment i our enemy and i every e el in the word's enems and the sooner

el realize that the more ofa chance we hase at  real future. And s  father and a

ushand. | want i children 1o have a fture. | wand them and sl thei friends and our

ehibdren o ine ina viable world. | mean. here e e i the sweek of the worst

¢ meltdown since the Depression and il no one knows how to do any. what,

oo anthing about anything. We're supposed o just throw mones a the

A

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govermment 10 ol these problenms. 1's horible. ey e already ten. deven il

dollars i debt. They use half of out. oue it of our laba

o weaponry and prinias

repression. and stomic bombs and all of these horeble errible hings. 1 the antihesss

what we really ned So. people need 10 realize, sou know. hat the tuth sl v

o ane, insicad ofjus half a truth that we constantly see regurgitaied on the 1V i 1

e radio s n the newspaper It doesa't do anything for them except passes theie s o

Tile it 1t doesa’t send them 1o more realizations or gt them 10, 0u ke, feci el

about what they are doing with thei lves. S0 that's what we're tying to do W' 1

10 s0m o, b, shatir the glass that"s mutling the svice of the peopl that are pekin;
ruth to posr. in realtime about what's goimg on right now. [Laughs.| Overs heliin
st a fur as 1 can s v lisiened 10 all Kinds o people. 'v¢ b ll et ihe Plows

and communicated with all Kinds of people. The people that are binging it arc 4 1

people like me snd e other people outsid and the prsoncrs. ot since they "
ocked down and shackled and gagyed. it hehooses people fike me and et pevpls 1

. may b besond what southink s requited 1

ive a duma about what's going on (0

you: o actally go and help somehods. 15 like 3 amily | mean, $ou o any g 1o

sour child 47
Uhhuh.

Vo just extond that o the rest o humanity. Wh s it somebuns elsc’s hibd o gt

care about what happens o therm? But o caré shout what happns

Docsart that diminish your o humanity” Wl ook what's Bappt

D 1

These Kids are. they don't even know anyhing and they ‘e brutalized and shon i

2 miscrable ghetto situation where iokence s all around them and Jespair and ha o)

o st ] homes int priser, ik 14

cnvironments, 1 just horrble what e o 0 these people. Asd 1

think tht they ‘s the had guys. Yes. some of them are hd guss. They o horrbve

they shoot. Kill and hurt pople and that s shvays alf Wi, hut hat's vty

i

e crmment docs on a mega sale. So. people gotta realize what's really going on and put

hing it perspective and find out who's doing what and how to stop the worst offenses,

ek, Try 10 make it ry to make a heter workl, that's s, | mean that's what we're
i we're ll supposed to b doing. fguring out. You lend your interests and talents to

develon tha in such a way that you help socicty, 11’ really simple. That we're conscious

P i saicns. s ha e sre capaie 1 do. A e o 3 dog. theycould be o
s o . o e o el do o . We e 4§

carabilits and it [sic] and it scems like a stupid thing o me for people not 1 do it. They

e o much time ke

ving te Figare out 3 way 1o not exen think about i you know.

confuse their mind or occupy their time with whatever it s they re doing tha keeps them

s trom focusing o shat realy is important and what should concern them. I1s just

Stunming o me hecause. you know. we're only here a few decades folks and then that's it.

Soow ks What i what [ie] what ar ou going to have when it all said and done.

Wt hane o o e for sourscl? Yo save o e sy, you waich ot of
selesin. and o ide' dream of g e Thar's horile, That' themost
s st o e | can posibly hink of So e have this possbilin. and working
it e el hat Ko are il rosswhat ol she far e,

*hhoh,

And g and actualize themselves. cspesially i hey anein these horrible confiing

niations. That s, that is incredibl admirshl and a testament t ther courage and

umanity.reall: that ey are wiing and able 1

dothis. And it scems ke just and

atterhought for me just 10

them do this. 11 rally ot that heard to do thi, To me

- fin
[ ET—

St of ok What e you oing o do v ot a o, house,  wite o Kids '
0 1 e et anyas. Whatam 1 oing o do watch TV il he time. 1 don ecd 1

Stk 1L don ™ samt o watch TV Thave

ion nice music tapes and | can put

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those on while It working, 49
Right

1don't B 10 wasic my e st there ke o egetable, you ks (1 sughs | Su
hat's why 160 all o this. And you how. ke | . talking carler about iy Dt st

o b s sl

erehing, that's ind o bow |, rought up. | was e
sotally engaged person, A 0 this i how . o, |t 1o g e | wasi, |
s i 1 come 0 f o, 300 Ko ke |t | sl i v iyl
A gt mysea el of o o things whih s el i, bty st bt

Sourself That's not...o0 uc kows nothing sbout t. And you o eall get he e

Ot you know, reactions and yon know. You don' live 4 full e, W' soctal i

We have 10 interact sociall. S0 i avvays involsed ai |

i anything srvund e ard

3ok, like |0 10...1 coounded S TAND, the biggen group arvusd b

ol

s sl and 1010 ot of mectings and |tk bl Kinds of el and v sl ot

ke projeuts around here. Exerywhere |50 | tall about this statl ' sy s carry

cites ndtalking sbout. and y0u know,

ILaughs |

T sure my Wi issick of earing about this Because i's it et cup o ca. Bt

o
e rspectial e s cach e, We Ko ot Bt i e (gh o €10
ogh e disagio b that gt stuch. i thre. Andwe s, $0u ki, st Bkl
supportine regandiess. And tha's how 1 el bt ] s prisones i | on't
ccessaly sgree wilh. e, uh. | munt sy 1 croying working it brilhans
anarchist pisomers mors bcaus | agr withthes and gt sl ad ush o i

heir wrting more and we's

more on the same waveength. Bl there'

Sou can’ have a respectil aad u posits ¢ and produstive collaboratioss wilh it pole
with difherent ideas. S that's what |13 10 o and an, | don ke, e s where

soes. | don't kanow. | just 1'm Dever a s bos tor things o dor |t stad i o i

something 0 60 like cven 1 T st ot + doctor’s ot ur soeig. e gt

witing Yters or dning something, hecause 1 dor't

ohing. {1 aughs |

AN [Lauche

w Fhae oo much work to do,
e AWl appreciate you taking time from all yowr work fo de 10 met with me
w»

e

R Yep

e i istant fue,

R Ohand | have a few 7ines | can give you [for archive] that | jus wae going to mail to

R T o b g,

R Do finihd e the fat il shout  month age.

N o Thar i e great.

R o iched i tho 5t e ek,

AN right 1 am eving o shexd and shot his down here and 1 will b sure fo get you 8
ot and 3 (D,

W

I il ke a e it of ime ta do the trnerip,
AR ORI s,

Do ene pransy

inding Aid (Available by January 0f 2009)

http://library.depanl.edu/Collections/Zines.aspx

LIFETIME ACHIEVEMENT AWARD

preseated to.

Authosy R. Rayson

for outstandiag service 10 bumanity

Aatboay, you are 2 warrior. Brilliany utilizing the
wespoas of orgasization asd commesication. Your work
has helped thousands overcome the disastrous effects
our socicties bave placed on it's imbabitants

By setting sach great examples, your work will continue
10 belp many thousasds morc ia the years io come

Time asd time agais, you have beea the light in our
darkest momeats of which bas inspired many to
illaminate themselves uatil the shadows are o more

YOU ARE POWER.
Extreme gratitude also goes out 10 Asthony’s wife and

childrea. For without sach stroag sspport from your
family. osc cansol be stroag yourself.

Preseated by The South Side Crew
oa behalf of the world,

THANK YOU ANTHONY

g
-

=

P.0. B¢
8ox 721, Homewood, IL 60430